This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Lighthouse article.
General discussion about the article's subject is permitted as a way to aid improvement of the article. Theories about the article subject should not be discussed here. (Instead, post your theory to this article's theory page or discuss it on this article's theory talk page.)
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Probably not necessary, but just in case someone gets the idea to edit this article with details they have read I think it's safe to lock it, like we usually do with future episode articles.--Baker1000 00:20, February 20, 2010 (UTC)
Leave it, if we don't have any problems, future upcoming episode articles can be left unlocked.cgmv123TalkContribsE-mail 00:30, February 20, 2010 (UTC)
We've just had someone edit warring the centric onto the article. Still disagree? ;)--Baker1000 23:57, February 20, 2010 (UTC)
for that matter, here's the press release for the following episode **SPOILER** Nierfacon 03:59, February 23, 2010 (UTC)
Was there some confusion over the term "Lighthouse" that we all needed to worry about?--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 16:35, February 23, 2010 (UTC)
Apparently it used to redirect to Lamp-Post. But, well, for all we know the title is literal and it has a lighthouse in it. Dunno how it could have one so it's improbable as heck, but it might, and then we'd have a real lighthouse to write about too! --Golden Monkey 21:31, February 23, 2010 (UTC)
I think that might be an artifact from when we were arguing about what the DHARMA Lamppost was. IMO, the redirect should be trashed and the episode page renamed to "Lighthouse." To argue that we might have another lighthouse article would have to be augmented by we might have another "Collision" so that page should be renamed "Collision (Episode)," ad infinitum.--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 23:04, February 23, 2010 (UTC)
Wait until after the episode. If there is a literal lighthouse on the Island or off it that this episode refers to, then Lighthouse should be where we write about it. If not, move the episode page back there. It would be pointless to move it now only to find out we need to move it back.--Baker1000 23:42, February 23, 2010 (UTC)
I agree. --Irockman 03:14, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
Rename[]
Episodes have always taken precedence over other pages in naming. This page should match the episode name. A Page for the structure should be called "Lighthouse (Structure).--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 03:12, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
If you read the discussion on the episode page, you find that the reason we did that is that we decided the wiki software would get confused if we called it just "?". cgmv123TalkContribsE-mail 22:39, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
That's not a very good reason, since just searching ? brings you to the episode page. There is no page simply labeled "?" and is a good reason to rename that article - but that's another subject altogether.--HaloOfTheSun 03:43, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
We've already got a page going for The Lighthouse. So no worries fellas. Just name this article 'Lighthouse' like it should be, and call it good. --LOST-The Cartographer 03:59, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
, since lighthouse directs to the page anyway --LOST-Hunter61 06:16, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
should be called Lighthouse to mach up with other episodes. Bobrk 17:54, February 26, 2010 (UTC)
Closed (for now)[]
We're not going to rename at this time. There is precedent that the (episode) specifier goes on the end of the title of the episode page. Lighthouse redirects to Lighthouse (episode), and a disambiguation note is at the top of the page. Any other discussion on the matter should be made at Lostpedia:Ideas where a specific policy could be discussed. Jabberwock talk contribs email - 04:09, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
The problem with your fiat is you are adjudicating an action which you took. Another sysop should be asked to make this call.--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 15:21, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
with rename per precendents of naming policy, some of which I have only just fixed to be honest. --Blueeagleislander 13:11, February 25, 2010 (UTC)
Jacob teaching the new Candidate[]
I'm getting the impression that Jacob is teaching Hurley how to be the next him. So far he's taught him how to get into the Temple, how to stand up to Dogen, and how to push people's buttons differently: directly with him; and subtly for Jack.--Lucky Day 06:36, February 26, 2010 (UTC)
I totally agree. Either that or Jacob has already made Hurley the new Jacob (unbeknownst to Hurley) and is doing some "on-site training with him". I can imagine Hurley saying something along the lines of "So dude.. who's going to be the new you?" and Jacob smiles and says "You are Hurley." Hurley - "No way dude." then cut to a commercial break. Uzerzero 15:18, February 27, 2010 (UTC)
Appendix scar[]
If I remember correctly, wasn't Jack looking in a mirror at his appendectomy scar, so therefore it being on the left was not a blooper? --Blueeagleislander 06:16, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
I don't believe so but I will look into that. --♥meggie ~ Talk & contribs 21:21, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
I rewatched the video and noticed that the part of Jack's hair was on the opposite side of his scar. In a normal shoot his part is on the left, so his scar is in the correct place. I guess he was standing in a mirror...Lashes 23:52, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
Yes, clearly in a mirror. In the shot of him first noticing the scar, the camera shows us the real Jack standing in front of the mirror and we see the reflected Jack at the same time ( might need widescreen to see the real Jack in that shot), and as you would expect, reflected Jack has his hair is parted on wrong side, watch on wrong hand, and he is looking at the scar on the wrong side, so real Jack has it on the correct sideBeelzebubbles101 22:47, April 10, 2010 (UTC)
It is not a blooper. Looking into the mirror the scar is on his right which would mean that it was also on his actual right side. --Slimeham 18:23, March 2, 2010 (UTC)
List O' Names[]
we've got some much better screencaps than from the cave last week.
All of them are crossed out unless noted with an asterisk (would be easier than striking through almost every name).
see the candidates page for more detailed discussion.--Lucky Day 09:30, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
Episode Image[]
#1.
#2.
I prefer my image because it looks much better. The one ObiDanKenobi5 replaced it with is blurry, bland, cut off at the bottom, and has odd white things in the bottom left.
His argument is that it showcases the climax of the episode and that mine is irrelevant. An episode image doesn't have to be a screenscap from the climax, and it often isn't. Why sacrifice quality for relevance, which doesn't matter anyway?
--Irockman 06:43, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
I like yours better, and the argument that the episode image has to be relevant to the climax of the episode is moot, as there are lots of episode images that we use that aren't relevant to that episode's climax, and often not even necessarily relevant to the episode's main story. In addition the one on the right is hideous.--HaloOfTheSun 06:46, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
I was not referring to any climax, I was referring to the meaning behind the title. Look at any other episode: "Abandoned" has Shannon beside Boone's grave, thus being abandoned; "The Cost of Living" has Eko facing the monster one last time, paying the cost of living; "The Lie" - Hurley not wanting to lie; "LaFleur" - the picture of the new recruits under the Namaste sign, etc. I just meant that seeing Jack looking at the mirror of the lighthouse, versus a random picture of him in FS is a bit weird. But hey, I do like your choice, and you know what, I agree. Let's revert. ODK Talk Sandbox 07:23, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
#3
I would submit "6x05_WatchTheOcean.jpg" as far better than either option. And don't start with the "only face close-ups" rule - it's a needlessly restrictive and completely arbitrary rule, particularly when it precludes far more interesting images from consideration. --Pyramidhead 07:25, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
Fine, fair enough. Instead of starting a pointless editing war, let's just put it to a vote.1, 2 or 3? ODK Talk Sandbox 07:28, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
(counted) While I think it's more interesting, episode images are face and upper body shots. Jack is facing away from the camera. Even if you disagree with it, it's how it is. You shouldn't break both the rule and consistency. I vote 1. --Irockman 07:51, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
It's only how it is because somebody was uncreative when they had to come up with 30-odd episode stills when the wiki was started. I'm not sure you realize how laughable it is to think that something "just is" on a community-run resource. --Pyramidhead 08:02, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
Let's try to keep some mutual respect here, shall we? ODK Talk Sandbox 14:29, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
(counted) I vote #3--I don't think it should be restricted to only face shots. However, if it has to be a face, the first one is WAY better.--Emissary23 07:57, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
(counted) I vote for #3! In fact, when I watched the episode, I thought, that should be the image on Lostpedia for this episode. Marc604 08:11, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
(counted) 1, all the other episode images from the season are from flashsideways and I think we should continue the trend. Kajillion 08:31, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
(counted) 3, because it relates to the episode best and looks good. --Golden Monkey 08:35, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
(counted) Add my vote for 3 for the same reason as the golden monkey... because it relates to the episode best and looks good. --Snake78 21:46, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
(counted) vote for 3 - with image like this one can remember what the epsisode was about. most appropriate. --V-vk 06:32, February 25, 2010 (UTC)
SHEPHARD[]
The name SHEPHARD is very distinct on the wheel. Its not the only one written in caps, the lettering seems inconsistent throughout the names: some are in upper case; some in lower case, some capitalize the first letter; some are arbitrary. However, the SHEPHARD name is darker and the lettering larger, almost if someone used a pen to fill in a blank spot that was sitting there. Any thoughts to possible significance?--Lucky Day 09:35, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
Thanks. Thoughts?--Lucky Day 16:02, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
I also seemed to think that not only were names added and crossed out, I think they were added after previous names had been erased. Bobrk 20:02, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
I agree about the replacement names idea. If you look at the shot that shows "SHEPHARD," there is fainter writing between the "R" and "D" (looks vaguely like an "8"). No theory on how/why a name would be replaced.
I figured it was Jacob making sure he noticed ESachs 21:13, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
its definitely hard to say at this point but its distinct enough to talk about. As part of a theory to push Jack's buttons makes more sense than trying to make sure we noticed it.--Lucky Day 06:29, February 26, 2010 (UTC)
Dogen[]
As usual, can we get a translation of his Japanese posted in trivia?--Lucky Day 09:37, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
From DarkUFO, http://darkufo.blogspot.com/2010/02/what-did-dogen-say.html
"You are lucky that you are protected. Because if you were not protected, I would cut your head off."
I'm not sure where it belongs, so I'm putting it here for you all to decide. --Snake78 22:52, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
thanks. I'll put it in general trivia.--Lucky Day 06:15, February 26, 2010 (UTC)
Fryderyk Chopin’s birth[]
Cultural references - It's 200th anniversary of Fryderyk Chopin’s birth during this week - starting from 22nd February through to 1st March 2010 (because of doubts with the actual birthday of him). Koincydent 11:35, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
Did Jacob say "it is" or "he is"?[]
In the article it says that Jacob told Hugo "because it was the only way for him to understand how important it is". I'm pretty sure Jacob said "...to understand how important he is". Can everyone else confirm what did they hear? — Iimitk T C 12:37, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
I heard "he". Will update if I'm the first to come back after watching the ABC stream.Maxpower212 14:26, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
Verified and changed on the page. Jacob says "he is".Maxpower212 16:18, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
About he or it, when Jacob tells Hurley "someone is coming to the island", I then heard "I need you to help them find it." What do you guys heard ? And are we referring to the MIB as "he" or "it" ? If Jacob said "it", he might talk about a new MIB/Jacob-like. --FrenchFlo 22:05, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
FrenchFlo, you're talking about a different part, when they speak at the fountain. And yes, at that time Jacob says "Someone is coming to the island. I need you to help them find it." As for the original question regarding their discussion at the lighthouse, Jacob says "...how important he is." -Cpt cannibal 22:44, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
I know I asked about a different part, since someone already answered the original qestion I used this post which also match my question. thank you for the confirmation btw. --FrenchFlo 07:50, February 25, 2010 (UTC)
Sorry guys Jacob clearly says (when explaining to Hurley) "how important IT is" - I did the original write up and was very careful because Jacob both talks about the importance of something and the importance of Jack himself - in the scheme of that something. Anyway I went back to my copy, headphoned it several times and for this quote "it" is correct not "he. --Charles Kane 16:49, February 27, 2010 (UTC)"
Apologies, Jacob appears in three scenes in this episode. Only once, the third time at the Lighthouse, does he even mention the importance of anything. And he undoubtedly says "HE". Hurley: "Wait a minute, did you want Jack to see what was in that mirror? Why?" Jacob: "It was the only way for him to understand how important he is." In the context of their exchange, saying "it" wouldn't make sense. There is no "it", and no antecedent that it would be referring to. Not that a pronoun MUST refer back to a clear antecedent, but if he did say "it" in such an ambiguous manner, surely Hurley's next words would be "how important what is?" but instead he continues the conversation forward. --Cpt cannibal 21:00, February 27, 2010 (UTC)
I changed it to "he". The transcript says "he", you guys think it's "he" and when I put a filter on the audio it does sound like "he". My bad, tho the actor does lose the word a bit on his lips. --Charles Kane 01:15, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
Wallace[]
"Is "Wallace" who Jacob wanted to come to the island?" ...guys, did you watch the same episode? Jacob never wanted anyone to come to the Island. He was lying to make Jack break the mirror. --Golden Monkey 14:10, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
I think you're right, although ostensibly, Jacob told Hurley he wanted 108 to find their way to the island. After Jack broke the mirror, Jacob told Hurley that this person would find their way one way or the other. Whether or not he was telling the complete truth isn't known.Maxpower212 14:26, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
Also, Jacob indicates that he wanted Jack and Hurley away from the Temple when (presumably) the Man in Black arrives.Maxpower212 16:16, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, it was a ruse to A. get the mirrors broken, B. get Jack where he was and C. Get them away from the Temple. --Golden Monkey 16:31, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
Jacob told Ben and Flocke previous that people were coming to the island, so it's more like 1) Get Hurley and Jack away from the temple, 2) Make Jack realize how important he is and 3) Help the people coming to the island. Jack happened to screw up #3 in the process of being angry about #2, but that doesn't mean Jacob didn't intend for it to happen...--Jackdavinci 18:49, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
Just for completeness, what Jacob says in his offhand manner is "oh, I'm sure they'll find some other way". They could still be "singular" - even if it's a boat-full of people, it could be - people will find their way to the Island some time in this future or it could be something specific, tho it certainly doesn't sound big deal.--Charles Kane 01:28, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
Tic-tac-toe black-and-white?[]
On the main page, under Recurring themes, there is a mention of Hurley and Miles' tic-tac-toe (noughts and crosses!) game being black and white. I seem to remember them being purple flowers and green vines, but am not too sure. I didn't want to delete it without input.Maxpower212 14:29, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
I thought the same things and didn't edit it for the same reason.--Lucky Day 16:03, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
Verified and updated on the main page. The game of tic-tac-toe was purple flowers and gray-green vines of some type.Maxpower212 16:18, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
The game could still be symbolic in a way though. Two sides (the Os and Xs) pushing at each other but inevitably ending in a draw. Always a stalemate. Very much like Jacob and MiB, perhaps. --Lord Conflict 18:28, February 25, 2010 (UTC)
Isn't it a subtle "Wargames" reference? They start out playing an old-school board games and end up with an equivalent to Global thermonuclear war.Violetbeau 22:08, February 26, 2010 (UTC)
Trivia[]
added two items about david's phone number and house number Iamafractal 15:11, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
what did i do wrong?[]
I added two pieces of information about numbers as they relate to jack's son, but they were promptly deleted.. Did i make a mistake? I also have a screen shot of david's house number, but i'm not sure where to put that...
What did you say?--Lucky Day 16:04, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
There is a group of people who hate to see anything about the numbers in Trivia; there are also many people who never explain their edits. My answer is for you to re-insert your entries with an edit summary reading "Please explain your deletes."--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 16:10, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
ok let's see what happens. I will re-add the two numbers related trivia pieces... how do i add a pic of one of them?Iamafractal 16:32, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
Look further down, they are under Recurring themes, where they belong --LOST-Hunter61 16:35, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
David's mother address[]
In the Recurring Themes section it's said that David's mother address is 23 and it isn't. It's seen in the picture that the right number is 233
233 is also the address that Christian had his will mailed to, we cannot see the street name for David's mother's house, but pretty big coincidence. In the OT Jack accuses his father of having an affair with his wife, maybe in new time line he is. Would also explain why David was so upset about Christians death, as he was maybe living at the house with him.--Asublues 16:38, March 5, 2010 (UTC)
Jacob at the pool[]
I didn't catch Jacob putting something in the pool at the temple. Was that clear and if so, could he possibly have been taking water out? If he was "tinkering" with the pool I think that is important and would add an UQ re: what was he up to. But I don't want to jump to conclusions if all he was doing was just looking at the pool or perhaps passing time while he waited for Hurley by dipping into it, which was all it looked like to me. Anyone know for sure what he was doing?--Destinedjourney 16:51, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
Appears as though he's just idly twirling a stick in the water, no purpose. As he stands and turns to Hurley, he has nothing in his hands. Probly just dropped the twig he was playing with. -Cpt cannibal 19:16, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
So, should the description within the article remove the part about Jacob pouring something in the water?--Destinedjourney 23:57, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
I'd like some confirmation on this from someone with a very high quality copy of the episode. In mine at a moment it looks like a stick, but for a second, when the lightning fluctuates it looks like the "stick" is in a donwards motion as if it was actually a thin stream of something being pured. Nevertheless, I think whatever Jacob was doing there had a specific purpose.Maokun 04:54, February 25, 2010 (UTC)
Jacob awaiting Hurley by the temple pool. ("Lighthouse")
The dozen or so frames at this point are the only times you see the object in his hand. You can clearly see the distinct bend, it is not pouring of water, ash, etc. It is brown in color and resembles a twig. After he stands and approaches Hurley, there are a couple of frames that show his left hand (which held this object) in motion as he walks, and there's no longer anything in his hand (either hand, for that matter). View fullsize to see the object more clearly. --Cpt cannibal 06:22, February 25, 2010 (UTC)
Isn't Jacob dead? Who says he can have any effect on the physical world at the moment? --SoNickPick 00:36, February 26, 2010 (UTC)
Another great point. In reality, he wasn't actually there at all and neither was the object he was playing with in the water. For example, if say, Jack was also in there with Hurley, Jack would have seen nothing because Jacob isn't physically present. Recall prior "ghosts" Hurley has seen and apparently interacted with (Dave slapping him, hitting him with a coconut, Hurley carrying his slipper) but all of these "interactions" were not physically present, only experienced by Hurley. There is no special meaning between Jacob and the water in this scene, he's just waiting for Hurley. --Cpt cannibal 00:45, February 26, 2010 (UTC)
Dogen and Hugo[]
Dis Dogen seem cowed by Hugo's declaration of his candidacy?--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 16:57, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
Don't think so... He seemed like he was surprised that Hurley knew about being a candidate and was so confident about it.Maxpower212 23:57, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
Jack's tattoos[]
Jack with NO TATTOOS
In Sideways World, it appeared that Jack's Tattoos were completely missing. Also I have read in other posts on other boards that some though Island jack had MORE tattoos than before!! --Ncmacasl 18:39, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
Good, at least it means we won't have a flash-sideways to explain where his tattoos came from.--Baker1000 20:16, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
Haha I agree, awful episode. Nevertheless, Jack indeed has more tattoos now (on the sides of his arms) though is clear that the producers are trying to hide them with angles and poses and you can only glimpse them here and there. I guess Matthew Fox got new tattos leaving the producers with the trouble of hiding or explain them, the former being the easiest one.Maokun 04:53, February 25, 2010 (UTC)
yeah, these are getting annoying. You think an actor would have some respect for his job. I guess this is why Terry Quinn won the emmy. Did Jorge Garcia get one on his wrist? I keep thinking someone did.--Lucky Day 06:25, February 26, 2010 (UTC)
Jack's Alarm Clock[]
Jack's Clock
Jack's Alarm clock (analog) in Sideways World went off at 2:51pm -- Kate is number 51 and is seen with Jack on Island World in this episode!! Screenshot: (Both pics are from screen shots from Hulu.com - not sure about fair use or licensing of these) --Ncmacasl 18:39, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
Song in Jack's Car[]
Does anyone know the song that Jack is listening to when he's driving on his way to pick David up? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by CinematicESP (talk • contribs) 2010-02-24T15:53:33.
I've been trying to find that, but the sound is not the best. I could hear "no one sees" or "no one seems". Also, something that resembles "comin' home", and the word "son". I really want to know what song that is. - -. Grillage .- 17:39, March 1, 2010 (UTC)
Don't take my word for this, but I was skimming some forum posts and I saw something about Jack's car and then "Ride the Lightning". Whether the song in his car is that song or from that album I don't know. Possibly neither.
If you mean the song or album of that title by Metallica, then no its not correct. Sounds like a blues song to me. There is an album titled "Ride the Lightning" from a Canadian band called Marshmallow Coast, but they are an indie-pop/rock band so I doubt its a song from their album, though I have never heard their music. I don't think Ride The Lightning has anything to do with the song in Jack's car. --Cpt cannibal 21:14, March 6, 2010 (UTC)
"Through the Looking Glass"[]
I'd rather not edit the main page because I don't want to mess up the format, but if someone wants to add in a line about Through the Looking Glass, that would be great. Clearly, the Mirrors in the Lighthouse give Jack and Hurley (and Jacob) a view to different worlds, where things are similar but different to this world.
Also, consider removing the Frequency reference, because that is wholly irrelevant.--BlueBeard 00:51, February 25, 2010 (UTC)
Writing on Hurley's Arm?[]
Hurley has instructions from Jacob, written in ink on his forearm.
Anybody able to make out what Jacob's instructions for Hurley are? --Snake78 01:06, February 25, 2010 (UTC)
I can't make anything out in this pic. Looks like gibberish.--Pittsburghmuggle 01:31, February 25, 2010 (UTC)
it mostly appears gibberish, with some readable words mixed throughout that I can't make sense of. It starts, however with "PUSH X" where x is the symbol marking the block to the secret passage. And it ends with "(align?) @ 108°". I'll upload some highres screens a little later with any other sense I can make out of it. -Cpt cannibal 01:53, February 25, 2010 (UTC)
Actually now that I look at it that isn't an X but the omega symbol Hurley found in the passage - half is covered by his finger.--Pittsburghmuggle 02:19, February 25, 2010 (UTC)
Right, its not actually X, its the symbol on the block leading to the hidden passage. I don't know how to type out the omega symbol, or whatever it is =] -Cpt cannibal 03:01, February 25, 2010 (UTC)
Ok, I'll write out a short table of what I could make out of his arm notes. Many words are not legible, blocked, smeared, etc. Words out of parentheses are probable, in parenthesis are possible. The message appears as though he was taking notes of a detailed trip Jacob was describing. Its certainly not word for word, but rather only key points are written down. This makes it very difficult to "predict" what words might come next, as grammar and punctuation aren't considered. Again, it just appears to be keywords highlighting the route from the temple to the lighthouse, followed by instructions on what to do once there.
“
Push X¹ (Long Tunnel) Stone (doorway down) Slope Follow
North of (...) @ M² (...) Valley Past (...) ³
Follow Stream Down (to ... ...?)
(Reach S...y) (...) Follow (S...) to (/smeared/ P...)
Stone Tower 88ft 4 Levels× (/smeared/ of spiral) Stairs
(G...)• (Mirror) Pull Chain (to)
(Align) @ 108°
”
¹ - This X represents the omega symbol, which is actually written on his arm and also marks the stone block he finds in the hallway.
² - This appears to be a representation of a mountain or hill rather than the letter M.
³ - There's a column, maybe two, of text squeezed in here as though Jacob punctuated this after Hurley finished some of the rows. One column says "(R...) (P...) This is key". There's additional text here, most not legible, and says "turn left" with a small arrow pointing up then directly left.
× - Notes suggest tower is comprised of four 22ft levels containing spiral stairs, reaching 88ft.
• - This is either two words, "6 (...)" or its one word beginning with G as in "(G...)". Its a reach, but might say "Giant Mirror" -Cpt cannibal 07:24, February 25, 2010 (UTC)
nice job. I looked and paused the DVR but gave up. I wonder if it shows up in closed captioning anywhere or will be written out in next week's enhanced epsiode. It would be worth putting on the main article if we can get this confirmed or maybe Jorge can tell us in his blog.
Jorge Garcia admitted in his podcast that he wrote the tattoo blurry and hazy on purpose because the director didn't want people taking a screenshot and being able to read it, like the blast door map. I'm not sure there's even a point in trying to read it, in other words. It's merely directions to the Lighthouse. Marc604 14:36, February 26, 2010 (UTC)
When Hurley sees them, he's standing behind them as if they are raised above the ground. They're also REALLY close to the parts of the plane and Christian's broken up coffin. Were they that close to the caves living area in the episode they first appear in? I recall them being in a cave by themselves, but it's been a while.--Pittsburghmuggle 01:28, February 25, 2010 (UTC)
Agree. This is either something that needs to be answered - possibly someone moved them in the last 3 years for a reason - or else it's a blooper or continuity error. They were separated and they were not near the coffin in "House of the Rising Sun".--Jonahwriter 21:02, March 10, 2010 (UTC)
Previously on LOST?[]
Who started this "Previously on LOST" business? When did that become part of each episode's summary? I mean, I guess you can keep doing it if you like, but it just seems so odd to start doing something like that in the last season of the show. No?--Mrmagic522 05:17, February 25, 2010 (UTC)
Somebody apparently started doing it a few months ago. I never bothered to check who. I started noticing it on older episode articles and thought it was inconsistent at first, but apparently somebody has been going back and adding them to all the episodes. I personally think it's unnecessary, but apparently other people like it. --Celebok 10:27, February 25, 2010 (UTC)
I've been writing them this season - coz I saw them in a previous episode. Assumed it was for completeness. Harmless really and gets me into the swing coz I've been doing some of the early episode write-up.
I'll stop if ppl don't want "previously".--Charles Kane 16:49, February 26, 2010 (UTC)
I'll do it if no-one else gets in first --Charles Kane 01:33, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
Lighting "Blooper"[]
"During the conversation between Dogen and Jack at the Temple the lighting changes unrealistically in one shot. The natural lighting (sunlight) was changing due to clouds so this was a continuity error." How is this a blooper? Do clouds not effect sunlight in real life? This should be removed. --Faraday100 14:31, February 25, 2010 (UTC)
The original entry suggested the whole thing was different and bad continuity throughout. I did a frame by frame and ythe natural light was changing and in one shot they clearly screwed. But it really is a minute error. Still I edited to identify the ONE error rather than delete.
Jump in and delete if you like - it really is petty having it as a blooper. --Charles Kane 16:45, February 26, 2010 (UTC)
Number 60[]
Number 60 isn't crossed as well (seen at 33:47). It has a name that starts with "Ky..." next to it. I can't read it well but I'm pretty sure it's not crossed out.
I don't think we've met anyone with a similar name. Can anybody confirm this?
It could be Ilana's last name. She sure is acting candidate-y. Marc604 14:38, February 26, 2010 (UTC)
Man, I've watched it a dozen times now, frame by frame. I'd wager it says KYSKA but the hardest part for me to determine was if its crossed out or not. The final few frames looked crossed out to me but all previous frames, which are better lit, looks not-crossed-out. --Cpt cannibal 17:53, February 25, 2010 (UTC)
Slightly sharpened image [1]. Looks crossed out to me. --Lord Conflict 18:38, February 25, 2010 (UTC)
Is there any coincidence, that the bottle of McCutcheon's Scotch Whiskey (Charles Widmore first mentioned it when he showed the bottle he had in his office to Desmond) that is in Christian Shephard's beverage area is aged 60 years? The number 60 was pretty well emblazened on it. --Gredge 20:07, February 25, 2010 (UTC)
I doubt it. I just rewatched seasons 1-3 again and never realized how often McCutcheon whiskey is seen. Its all over the place. Another person somewhere on here commented that its often used to convey a sense of wealth. Widmore went on about how expensive it was, and we've seen other wealthy people with this brand such as Dr. Christian Shephard, and con-man Anthony Cooper. But hey, anything is possible in Lost! --Cpt cannibal 21:05, February 25, 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, it's pretty much everywhere. It was the drink that Ilana asked Sayid to buy her in the bar. I believe one glass was $120. Just a show of wealth. --Lord Conflict 21:34, February 25, 2010 (UTC)
Claire's Hut[]
Did anyone else notice that Claire's hut was the at the same location used for the exterior of The Staff? -- LostCloverfield42 Talk 18:52, February 25, 2010 (UTC)
Weird thing with the appendectomy[]
Is anyone else wondering what butterfly effect could cause a thermonuclear explosion on an Island 30 years ago to force Jack's appendectomy to become inflamed 30-some years sooner? I don't think it's a blooper or a UQ or anything, it was just something weird that occurred to me while watching the episode. Jimbo the Tubby talk contributions 19:05, February 25, 2010 (UTC)
Jack just said Jacob's been manipulating them. Not-Locke said that Jacob was manipulating them towards the island. I think what we are seeing in the flash-sideways is what their lives would be like without ANY of Jacob's influence. Jacob may have healed Jack's appendix so he could use it to keep Jack on the island.--Pittsburghmuggle 22:21, February 25, 2010 (UTC)
But the appendix didn't keep Jack on the Island. Jack left the Island in the Season Four finale. Marc604 14:41, February 26, 2010 (UTC)
Well, to play devil's advocate basically everyone told him not to go off on his own after the surgery so maybe he wasn't meant to leave the Island. --Golden Monkey 15:41, February 26, 2010 (UTC)
Vincent in Claire's new Cradle?[]
Is that a dead Vincent in Claire's cradle? Does this mean Aaron ate their dingo? - —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Lucky Day (talk • contribs) 2010-02-26T01:36:01.
I don't think so. I heard elsewhere that it was skulls, but I couldn't get a good look. Does anyone else know what was in the cradle?--Tim Thomason 06:49, February 26, 2010 (UTC)
I'm far from an expert on animal skulls. I didn't want it to be Vincent, so at first I assumed it was a cow. Judging, however, by the size relative to that of the cradle it seems way smaller than a cow would probably be in comparison, so it could theoretically be Vincent. The skull is the only bone present; the "body" is a bunch of animal furs. I uploaded a snap for your grotesque viewing pleasure. Also, are those shotgun shells for eyes? Creepy. --Cpt cannibal 09:07, February 26, 2010 (UTC)
The creators said in the February 5, 2009 podcast that "Carlton Cuse: He was not. And there’s only one character that we’re going to confirm will make it all till the end of LOST and that is Vincent the dog.". So it can't be Vincent.--Pittsburghmuggle 13:44, February 26, 2010 (UTC)
You guys, Vincent was in 1977 two days ago. If he flashed to the present with everyone else, then how can he be a skull already? Marc604 14:40, February 26, 2010 (UTC)
I've heard it refereed to as a squirrel baby. On the blog for Jorge Garcia's podcast, for one...--Golden Monkey 15:40, February 26, 2010 (UTC)
That's definitely a boar skull with its snout and tusks cut off, probably because it looked more like Aaron to Claire without tusks.. as weird as that sounds. But the skull baby has what appears to be eight teeth, which seems to correspond with the skulls seen here, as well as the sloped forehead and tapered snout. It also makes sense since we've seen boar several times on the Island already. If anybody can back me up or prove me wrong on this, please do. I'd like to add it to the episode page and boar page. Uzerzero 15:40, February 27, 2010 (UTC)
Yes, it is a boar skull. The snout has been sawed off just behind where the tusks would be. Claire had some surgical instruments and must have had a bone saw as the cut is precise and not a "hack" job.--Paleored 21:33, February 27, 2010 (UTC)
While this could just be me searching for answers and explanations where there are none, I can't help but wonder if there is any significance to it being a boar skull. Is it merely there just as a plot device for Jin to realize that Claire is crazy, or is there some other meaning to it? It seems like they put a lot of detail into a prop to explain one thing when they could have easily done it in a number of different, less elaborate ways. Then again, it is LOST... -Uzerzero 03:50, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
What would a "less elaborate" way be? Seems this is an obvious but still quite shocking way to show Claire's unhingement. But it is only partial coz while she has made a substitute baby she knows it's not the real one and she continues to look for the real one and to blame the "kidnappers". Still she's pretty far gone - in denial, with a substitute baby, kills with an axe, lives in a pigsty. Pity she can't act too! --Charles Kane 04:01, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
Perhaps this is a reference to Lord of the Flies, in which there is also a boar skull that was the fixation of the crazy Simon, who, when looking at it in the jungle for quite some time, was directed to a mountain top where he learn the true nature of the "monster" that was haunting the boys on the island. Similar to Claire seeming to know the true nature of the MIB. --Jimmysilverrims64 04:07, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
Good point. I thought there was something familiar about it. I'm sure the skeleton in the pram is not new but I can't think of where I've seen it. --Charles Kane 04:44, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
By a less elaborate way, I meant they could have revealed it via dialogue with Jin for instance. And it's not so much for Jin as it is for the audience. What do we think of when we think of crazy? Typically people with messed up hair, disheveled appearance, frequent remarks about things that don't make sense, eccentric behavior, etc. When we first saw Rousseau, we didn't need a skull baby to tell us that she was crazy. Just one look and you knew she was crazy. And that is also a very interesting note about Lord of the Flies. And I think that the boar skull is actually a recycled prop; I feel like I remember seeing it on a pole at some point in the first half of the series. Maybe at the Other's decoy village? -Uzerzero 03:50, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
Jack's grammar a blooper?[]
Under Bloopers and Continuity Errors, there is this: 'After Jack and Hurley found Kate, Jack asks: Where is Jin and Sawyer? You can hear this clearly. This has to be: Where are Jin and Sawyer?' I don't see that as a blooper at all... Grammatically speaking, he should have said, 'Where are Jin and Sawyer?', yes, but people don't always speak grammatically correct. I could easily see myself saying 'where's' without thinking twice about it... I'm sure the losties at some point during the series have ended a sentence with a preposition, and we wouldn't list that... :)--Snake78 02:35, February 27, 2010 (UTC)
Another Cultural Reference[]
In The Dark Tower series by Stephen King, the Gunslinger gets to the Lighthouse but the door is locked. In this episode Hurley mentions the door is locked but Jack kicks it opened. Annarboral 04:32, February 27, 2010 (UTC)
Christian Shephard's Address[]
The address on the envelope found by Jack's mom that contains Christian Shepards will is:
Christian Shepard
233 Bastion Dr.
Beverly Hills, CA 90211
David's Mother's house is also numbered 233, is it the same house or a coincidence? OolonColluphid 09:35, February 27, 2010 (UTC)
Unanswered questions[]
I have made a posting on Lighthouse (episode)/Theories page to the effect that out of the eleven questions posed as unanswered questions, only one of these is actually addressed on the theories page. It seems to me we have a problem here. Either we remove almost all the unanswered questions and replace them with questions that have been asked, theorised about and possibly answered, or we leave these questions here and remove all the stuff on the theories page which does NOT answer these questions. In other words, we need consistency between the two pages, otherwise the casual reader clicks on the link looking for answers to questions and finds him/herself confronted by a whole load of other stuff. --Sean Sheep 10:57, February 27, 2010 (UTC)
And I've moved it to the discussions page much like was predicted - including a response as to the unfairness of the criticism. I suggest we add questions on the episode page, I'm willing if that is the consensus. --Charles Kane 11:18, February 27, 2010 (UTC)
I don't think the criticism is unfair. What might be unfair would be ditching all the work that has been done to make these theory pages look at least 10% decent (prior to editing they were completely anarchic and impenetrable). However, there is really an interesting point here. The people who write the episode pages, should have a clear understanding of what questions have been posed in the episode, and whether or not these need answers, and whether answers have been provided previously. In some respects, they could be regarded as proper "agenda setters". On the other hand, all the theorists are interested in lots of other stuff (some I have to say is only marginally tangental to the contents of the episode.) In the lighthouse, for example, there is a huge section about whether MiB has, or has not been impersonating Christian Shepard. Christian does not even appear in the episode, so why, you might well ask, should it be on the Lighthouse/Theories page, rather than the Christian Shepahrd or Nemesis pages? Theories please should be posted on the Theory about Theories/Theories page. The theory writers, it could equally well be argued, are the proper agenda-setters, becuse they have a fundamental grasp of those long-standing questions which have been developing, and to which answers are emerging. Who's right? No idea, but what I do know is that the current status quo is untenable. Consistency is what's needed, and this needs to be a consensus, so that I, or some other editor do not start to "improve the page" by radically moving stuff to other pages or making unilateral decisions about what is, and what is not a viable or relevant theory (as is the case at present).--Sean Sheep 13:06, February 27, 2010 (UTC)
Of course the theorisers are the agenda setters - for their theories that is (of course). The questions are simply put by whoever believes there is an unanswered question and are then referred to the Theories page for a possible elucidation of their question. Apart from that there is no direct nexus between a question and a theory. There are no "question writers" per se.
Sometimes of course the question might have enough focus to be the basis for an inevitable theory - but equally questions may be trite, tho important to the seeker. That is how the Wiki is set up. And it is wise too because in a world like LOST there cannot be answers to everything, just occasional theories.
So I wouldn't get het up about unanswered questions - just deal with what you can do best.--Charles Kane 13:19, February 27, 2010 (UTC)
Should the UQ about Claire knowing MIB wasn't John Locke be removed? Seems everyone now knows he is not actually John Locke, and even though we dont know exactly how she found out, I think its clear now he told her. MoeT 00:03, April 13, 2010 (UTC)
I vote keep, we can't say for sure MiB talked to Claire as Locke, and other people knowing who he is has no bearing on Claire knowing who he is.--Frank J Lapidus 00:08, April 13, 2010 (UTC)
I removed a few more questions:
How is the mirror able to reflect places off-Island?
The answer is "magic." Or, "the Heart of the Island." Otherwise, what answer does this question seek? Mirrors cannot actually display images from across space and time.
Why are certain bearings associated with specific individuals?
No reason. The show never indicates that there is any significance behind which bearing each individual receives.
I think Hurley was actually moving the pointer in the wrong direction. Counting down if they had stopped at 108 they wouldn't have seen anything. Jacob, who was acting as the projectionist, realized this and moved the Kwon image which should have occurred at 42 up to 108 to catch Jack's attention. Then realizing there would be no more images until 23 he picked a lower number at random (Ford 15) and stuck it in there to keep Jack's attention and nudge him on to 23. This is the only way to explain the order they occurred (42,15,23) without it being a mistake. If Hurley had gone the other direction (as I think Jacob intended) counting up to 108, the numbers would have occurred in order 4,8,15,16 giving Jack a better chance of "catching on" and continuing to 23. --Paleored 21:24, February 27, 2010 (UTC)
I thought about it - and you are probably right. The issue is that it doesn't matter. We don't see everything that happens or hear everything that is said. Maybe they went back and forth a bit. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Charles Kane (talk • contribs) 2010-02-27T20:41:11.
We SEE Hurley pulling the chain with a constant motion and we SEE the pointer counting down. Neither ever change direction. Even if they were going back and forth, you can't get from 42 to 15 without going through 23 and 16 on the way. --Paleored 15:47, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
Since the seeming discrepancy is listed under Bloopers and Continuity Errors, it does matter in establishing whether it was indeed an oversight or intentional. --Paleored 16:05, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
you are right - it is a blooper--Charles Kane 02:35, March 1, 2010
Final episode with shots from the pre-season preview[]
Am I right in thinking this is the last episode which was shown in the preview that came out before the season began? I think Jack asking why his name was written there and smashing something (turning out to be the mirror) are the last bits shown in this preview trailer.--Pittsburghmuggle 00:04, March 3, 2010 (UTC)
(UTC)
Was there a picture of Jack Holding a baby with a woman[]
I didnt catch it in this weeks enhanced version but i thought i saw a picture of jack holding david as a baby with his then wife (davids mother).
at his desk at the start of the show he answers a phone and on the desk there is a picture frame.
--BillyTheDeuce 01:56, March 3, 2010 (UTC)
There are two photos shown as he enters the house (before the phone call and in a different room). One is Jack, with father on left and mother on right. Its when Jack was younger and looks like they're attending a special occasion like college graduation, wedding, etc. The other picture is Jack with father on right, presumably at a hospital and both wearing doctors scrubs. --Cpt cannibal 11:13, March 5, 2010 (UTC)
Hurley[]
"*Jorge Garcia (Hurley) appears only briefly in the flash-sideways time-line." Um. I may be mistaken, but doesn't this apply to "The Substitute", not this one? He wasn't even in the flash-sideways. --Golden Monkey 19:08, March 13, 2010 (UTC)
Juxtaposition between Lighthouse and Substitute episodes[]
Does anyone else see a more substantial amount of juxtaposition between this episode and the previous episode "The Substitute" than is mentioned in this article? In both episodes the A-mission is very similar, but one episode is for the "dark" side and the other for the "light". In both episodes there is a journey by two characters that reveals the nature of the candidate lists. Both groups have one of the alpha-male survivors (Jack and Sawyer) who is also one of the remaining candidates. Both higher powers (MiB and Jacob) seem to be using these journeys to convince their respective candidates in semi-deceptive fashion to join their side (Jacob basically admitted it and I'm sure the MiB wasn't being entirely truthful about the nature of his choices). However, the thematic juxtaposition of the light and dark is reflected in the nature of their journeys. MiB and Sawyer's journey is down into darkness with peril. They climb down into a dark cave, and almost get killed along the way by the old ladders. Hurley (Jacob's representative) and Jack's journey is up into light for safety. They climb up to the top of the lighthouse and in doing so avoid the attack at the temple.
The only mention of what I'm getting at here is a brief sentence in the Literary Techniques section - "Two lists are present on the island for the candidates, one in a 'light-house and another is in a dark cave." I don't think that does enough to convey how in certain ways, these 2 episodes are mirror images of each other. I'm kind of new here so if we were to add this in, I'm not sure what the best section to add it into would be.
--Jotajota31 04:45, March 15, 2010 (UTC)
Episode References[]
"Hurley applies the same (conning) technique to convince Jack about going to the lighthouse that he used against Sawyer regarding his "banishment.""
How's this one work, what was the shared dialogue or technique? Hurley used inside info from a ghost to motivate Jack, and bluffed he had inside info from the camp to motivate Sawyer? Still not a direct ref really. But it could be an example of a successful con by Hurley - Cons & Deceptions? Except it's Jacob's con. Come to think of it, Hurley complaining to Jacob about how hard it is to motivate Jack is a solid reference to the past, but...maybe too many eps too link? ;) But most recently Hurley was at the Orchid, he argued with Jack at Santa Rosa... Duncan905 03:37, March 20, 2010 (UTC)
Inhaler[]
Someone erased my post "*Shannon never had her inhaler in the caves, she had run out and Sun helped her using eucalyptus. ("Confidence Man") " and said that it is not a blooper. But it is a continuity error. That is why I put it in there, because it does not follow the previous storyline. Please don't delete it. --Phryrosebdeco23 07:16, April 4, 2010 (UTC)
But is it a blooper? All they said was she lost her inhaler. It's quite likely it could have ended up in the jungle, where no one found it. We know lots of luggage fell out of the plane and landed in the caves, so the same could have happened to Shannon's, and her inhaler, near the caves.--Baker1000 12:47, April 4, 2010 (UTC)
Shannon had her inhaler at the caves, but it ran out. Boone said he had packed four refills in his bag. It wasn't the inhaler that was missing, it was the refills, even though everyone kept talking about missing inhalers. The inhaler was found right where she probably threw it away. It was the refills that were never found. (An inhaler is usually a plastic sheath that holds a canister (refill) of medicine and compressed gas. The button on the inhaler releases a puff of medicine from the canister, much like an aerosol can.) We see Jack eject, observe and replace the empty canister after he stepped on the inhaler .--Paleored 19:42, December 8, 2010 (UTC)
Jack's wound[]
"Jack notices a scar near his waist, from the as yet unseen stab wound that killed him."
Is it neessary to say the wound will kill him? Though saying it isn't against spoiler policy, wouldn't it be better to remove "...that killed him" for those reading upon their first watch? I mean, not mentioning wound's fatality won't affect the trivia information (sorry for bad English) Gevorg89 (talk) 13:53, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
Lock it. The ethical editors won't mind.--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 03:10, February 22, 2010 (UTC)
No, see also ? (disambiguation). Jabberwock talk contribs email - 03:22, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
